Originally posted by Corndog
Like, the same people that were willing to go to war over wearing a mask to go grocery shopping are now advocating for in depth gynecological exams for kids to play volleyball.

Not willing to go to war, just wondering why there is pushback to girls getting a routine exam. It is recommended for girls as young as 12 to have a routine exam so it is as puzzling that people that followed health recommendations during the pandemic are suddenly treating those recommendations as invasive and fascist and part of a neoliberal agenda where we are traumatizing these young athletes.

Guessing if a patient requests a less invasive exam, the sports authority in Ohio will still accept a gynecologists conclusion that the patient is indeed a female.

Just curious but where do people who are born with both male and female genitals fit in this equation? Is there a precedent in those cases?

Originally posted by Cowpoker
Not willing to go to war, just wondering why there is pushback to girls getting a routine exam.

Yeah, keep repeating that argument that I already shot to hell.

Originally posted by Cowpoker
Guessing if a patient requests a less invasive exam, the sports authority in Ohio will still accept a gynecologists conclusion that the patient is indeed a female.

Why would you assume that though? That's not what the law says.

Originally posted by Cowpoker
Just curious but where do people who are born with both male and female genitals fit in this equation? Is there a precedent in those cases?

Fun fact, there's more people born intersex than people with red hair.

So I'm not sure where they fit in with this weird fascination right wingers like you have with kids' genitals.

It's also terribly vague on levels of testosterone production. All people have widely varying levels of testosterone production. Some cis women have higher levels than some cis men. Trans women usually have levels lower than most cis women.

The whole thing is just nonsense reactionary lawmaking that's undoubtedly going to hurt more people than it helps. Again, there's literally one trans athlete in the entire state.

Originally posted by Corndog
Why would you assume that though? That's not what the law says.

because if they wrote saying external only, some teenage boy/girl could get implants and his weanie hacked off and be eligible.

Courts and states typically accept professional opinions from my experience so yeah, a routine exam would probably suffice.

Originally posted by Corndog
Fun fact, there's more people born intersex than people with red hair.

So I'm not sure where they fit in with this weird fascination right wingers like you have with kids' genitals.

That is a fun fact.

Originally posted by Cowpoker
because if they wrote saying external only, some teenage boy/girl could get implants and his weanie hacked off and be eligible.

Courts and states typically accept professional opinions from my experience so yeah, a routine exam would probably suffice.

Do kids normally need to wait for court approval of their identity to play volleyball?

Originally posted by Corndog
It's also terribly vague on levels of testosterone production. All people have widely varying levels of testosterone production. Some cis women have higher levels than some cis men. Trans women usually have levels lower than most cis women.

The whole thing is just nonsense reactionary lawmaking that's undoubtedly going to hurt more people than it helps. Again, there's literally one trans athlete in the entire state.

I'm with you on the hormone level thing and I don't care enough either way to read the actual law but maybe the thought was that they would try to prevent or curb doping with man juice for a competitive advantage. You'd have to ask them but could a high school aged girl request hormone treatment? I'm saying a female who was committed to being a female, lie about wanting to identify as male and getting a prescription for hormones when her intent was just to gain some competitive advantage? It seems stupid but people do the roid thing all the time.

By the way, you know what would greatly diminish trans girls ability in highschool sports? Puberty blockers, but they are wanting to ban those as well. It's almost like this has nothing to do with any of the stated goals and everything to do with bigotry.

Originally posted by Cowpoker
I don't care enough either way to read the actual law

Originally posted by
(C) If a participant's sex is disputed, the participant
shall establish the participant's sex by presenting a signed
physician's statement indicating the participant's sex based
upon only the following:
(1) The participant's internal and external reproductive
anatomy;
(2) The participant's normal endogenously produced levels
of testosterone;
(3) An analysis of the participant's genetic makeup.

That's the entirety of the law.

Originally posted by Corndog
Do kids normally need to wait for court approval of their identity to play volleyball?

We needed the ball squeeze and cough in 7th grade and I doubt that MN is unique in the requirement.

So bascially how i'm assuming this would work is that a girl would get a sports physical, the doctor signs it and it is on record at the school with gender listed. That means IF an opposing coach requested an audit, there would be a protocol where the school maybe would have to produce a copy of that document with the Dr signature. It sounds a lot like what most schools have done since I have been alive and not so much like a certain death spiral in to Nazism.

Originally posted by Corndog
That's the entirety of the law.

Seems incredibly simple and straight forward.

Originally posted by Corndog
By the way, you know what would greatly diminish trans girls ability in highschool sports? Puberty blockers, but they are wanting to ban those as well. It's almost like this has nothing to do with any of the stated goals and everything to do with bigotry.

Whats the goal? To keep men from playing womens sports?

Originally posted by Cowpoker
Seems incredibly simple and straight forward.

Does it? What does disputed mean? What's the range of natural testosterone levels? Genetic tests?

It certainly is very simple, I'll give you that.